I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

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andreizabest
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I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by andreizabest »

I am considering switching to Linux for my Lenovo Thinkpad L380 and I could use some help to make the switch.

I have tried Ubuntu before but most of my experience comes from using Raspberry Pi OS on my PI 4 and Pi Zero 2W both with and without a desktop environment.

For the distro of my choice I think I'm going to use Ubuntu 22.04 LTS but I am open to other recommendation if they make sense.

The software I mainly use on my laptop is:
IntelliJ IDEA for JAVA
Visual Studio for C# and C++
Visual Studio Code for Python and JS/HTML/CSS
Microsoft 365 Suite including OneNote and Teams
Discord
Avermedia ReCentral with a Avermedia LGP Lite (occasionally)

I don't want to use a Windows VM for anything, besides the fact that it's a hassle, it'll chew through my battery. I hope that the battery life I currently have on W10 stays the same after switching or improves otherwise it won't make any sense to make the switch over. I also need help finding alternatives to the software I currently use since some of it is not native on Linux.

I need alternatives to the following:
Visual Studio (IDE for C# and C++)
Microsoft 365 I can use the OneNote and Teams web apps but I need OneDrive implementation and alternatives to Word, Excel, PowerPoint maybe even OneNote that I can use offline. (Plus the Microsoft 365 web apps kinda suck)
AverMedia LPG Lite drivers (some kind of driver so I can use it, at least in OBS or something similar)
Last edited by andreizabest on Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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andreizabest
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Re: Should I switch to Linux?

Post by andreizabest »

Installed Ubuntu, already some issues.
Fingerprint reader doesn't work and apparently never will. You'd think that wouldn't be the case.
Capture.PNG
During installation I was asked to set some stupid password for secure boot so I could install some third party drivers. This is normally not a thing in Windows, I'd expect it'd be handled similarly in Linux but I guess not.

I wanted to use livepatch in Ubuntu since not needing to restart the system for updates sounded pretty good and it's an often advertised feature of linux but after creating the account, which I shouldn't need to in the first place, I tried logging in, it did and then it just erorred out for me. I signed out and continued without livepatch. Waste of time

Random error just because. I don't think I did anything for this to happen.
IMG_0910.JPEG
I'm yet to install a single piece of software on this OS.
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andreizabest
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by andreizabest »

I tried to install VSC. I needed to retry 3 times to get it installed.
I tried to install IntelliJ IDEA Community, I retried 4 time and it didn't work.

For both of them the error was Unable to install x: cannot perform the following tasks:
And there's literally nothing after that, not tasks listed or anything. I tried to download the tar.gz file from jetbrains website. I had to retry to download it like 7-8 times (at least it continued from how much it downloaded before). Then found out it's not a setup like it is on windows.
Capture.PNG
At that point I gave up completely on Linux. So I decided that I wanted to download Windows and flash it on my USB drive like any normal person might want to do. I tried installing ballena etcher, after numerous tries I got it working, only to find out it doesn't automatically do the partition table like rufus or the windows tool does and requires for there to be already a partition table so I had to scrap that.
I tried unetbootin but I couldn't get it to work because it couldn't find some IP and the repository doesn't have a release file and "Updating from such a repository can't be done securely and is therefore disabled by default". I ended up using Ventoy and after dropping the image on the USB I restarted the laptop and had to enrol some stupid key or certificate for secure boot I think. At that point I just pulled the USB from the laptop, popped it into my PC and used the Windows tool to get windows on there and install it.

This is my attempt at downloading a single file in Ubuntu

Anyway. I'm done, I've installed windows back again and all software in less time than it took me on Ubuntu, I don't plan on trying Linux again. It's obvious to me that it's still a way away from being usable to the average user and definitely isn't something that just works. At least I tried and subsequently wasted over 3 hours of my time.
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MattKC
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Re: Should I switch to Linux?

Post by MattKC »

As someone who's been maining Linux for about a year now, I do agree the hurdles are still probably too great for the average user.

Most of this isn't really Linux's fault IMO, the tiny userbase (less than 2.5% total marketshare as of 2023) means companies, particularly hardware manufacturers, don't put nearly as much effort into supporting/providing drivers for Linux than they do for Windows (hence your fingerprint reader issues), and the fact that it's free means Linux has a fraction of the resources that Microsoft and Apple have to tackle problems.

I do think some of the issues you had could be attributed to Ubuntu specifically. While it's generally seen as the most accessible distro, Ubuntu seems particularly prone to those random seemingly unprompted errors, and I've always found their hardware support (particularly on laptops) is mediocre. Additionally, The Snap Store (exclusive to Ubuntu), which I see you using in some of your screenshots, is also not thought of very highly in the community.

Unfortunately, my solution to getting a "good" install of Linux was to switch to Arch, which is notorious for being complex to set up. It's a DIY distro, so you get a ton of control and freedom to make things work exactly how you want them to, but you have to be willing to put time and effort into getting there.

This highlights the problems with Linux that are its fault. Culturally speaking, it's an OS by programmers for programmers, and gets most of its usage on servers rather than the desktop. Generally its users are hackers that are more interested in raw functionality than widespread accessibility. That's why the CLI is extremely functional (usually considered the best CLI and build tools of any OS), but the GUI can be a little rough around the edges.

Additionally, the complete freedom it gives you, while arguably its greatest strength, is also one of its biggest weaknesses. Since Linux does allow you to mix and match all kinds of components, Linux devs often have to work harder than Windows/Mac devs to support a much wider variety of software environments, all with a fraction of the money/resources. Compounding this is the fact that Linux itself is usually assembled from several components made by completely different people. There's no singular vision/plan, no lead developer of the whole OS, it's simply up to each individual team to cooperate with the others (or not). It's not uncommon for one component to inadvertently break something in another without realizing it, and it's also exceptionally difficult to get all these separate teams to agree on new technologies (e.g. Wayland).

But if you're willing to put the effort in to maintain it, the freedom is extremely powerful. I regularly do things on my setup that simply aren't possible on Windows or macOS (including things I do for stream), and I'm particularly glad that I don't have to worry about whatever Microsoft or Apple introduce/remove next OS cycle (even if KDE or whoever does something I don't like, I can theoretically just edit the source myself to change it).

tl;dr, Linux on the desktop can be done, and it definitely has advantages, but it also has a lot of disadvantages. You get tremendous freedom, but you pay the price of having to use software with far less development resources behind it that you may have to put some work into maintaining yourself.
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Hanzo
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by Hanzo »

If I was to move to Linux I’d wait until Valve releases SteamOS 3 as a standalone OS as thanks to the Steam Deck I have some experience with SteamOS 3.
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MattKC
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by MattKC »

Hanzo wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:14 am If I was to move to Linux I’d wait until Valve releases SteamOS 3 as a standalone OS as thanks to the Steam Deck I have some experience with SteamOS 3.
I mean hey, it's Arch and KDE which is what I run now and very much enjoy. If they can turn that into a widely accessible product, I'm all for it.
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CrabHead
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by CrabHead »

Hanzo wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:14 am If I was to move to Linux I’d wait until Valve releases SteamOS 3 as a standalone OS as thanks to the Steam Deck I have some experience with SteamOS 3.
there is the steamos 3 made for steam deck that is available to download but it has it's fair of issues like not launching at all...
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Hanzo
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by Hanzo »

CrabHead wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:31 am there is the steamos 3 made for steam deck that is available to download but it has it's fair of issues like not launching at all...

Yeah I have seen that there is an unofficial patch to run SteamOS 3 on regular PC hardware but I’ve also seen that it’s a bit of a mess to set up, so that’s why I I’d rather wait until SteamOS 3 for PC’s releases officially by Valve.
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Hanzo
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by Hanzo »

MattKC wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:26 am I mean hey, it's Arch and KDE which is what I run now and very much enjoy. If they can turn that into a widely accessible product, I'm all for it.
I’ve always found Linux confusing when trying it in a VM but SteamOS 3 and the Steam Deck community really make Linux more noob/user friendly.
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damy
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by damy »

If you do more than just using a web browser switching to a different OS is not an easy thing to do (even if you switch from windows to mac or vice versa). If you ever thinking about trying it again install it on a different partition and try to use it when you have some free time. Try it first as a hobby OS, only boot it up when have time to fix something or learn how things work. Imo Ubuntu was the worst option you could choose (but I don't blame you since thats the most popular lol), if you liked how it worked (I'm not talking about the UI) maybe try Linux Mint (most of the people whom I recommended/installed it said its good so maybe it will work out for you too), but if like to do some more 'hacky' stuff Arch linux is a way better option imo. Arch officially doesn't have a GUI installer, but I'm pretty sure you can easily find a script or another arch based distro which has one.
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andreizabest
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by andreizabest »

damy wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:12 am If you do more than just using a web browser switching to a different OS is not an easy thing to do (even if you switch from windows to mac or vice versa)
IDK. I hackintoshed my desktop using a separate hard drive a while ago and found it pretty usable(besides the PAINFUL setup process). Besides having to fight a little with MacOS to install a third party app I found it pretty usable. I even used ChromeOS and the linux subsystem with VS Code and Python to code on an old windows tablet and it was pretty good.
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MattKC
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by MattKC »

andreizabest wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:21 pm IDK. I hackintoshed my desktop using a separate hard drive a while ago and found it pretty usable(besides the PAINFUL setup process). Besides having to fight a little with MacOS to install a third party app I found it pretty usable. I even used ChromeOS and the linux subsystem with VS Code and Python to code on an old windows tablet and it was pretty good.
If you were able to get through the Hackintosh process, I'd honestly recommend trying Arch (preferably with KDE instead of GNOME). I wouldn't necessarily recommend Arch to everyone, largely because of it's manual CLI-heavy installation process, but if you were able to get through a Hackintosh setup, it should be a piece of cake (the Arch wiki has a very straightforward guide). Not to beat a dead horse, but in my experience, Arch has been far smoother than any Ubuntu install I've ever had.
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by flatrute »

On another note, I have my Athlon tower running Fedora and it runs far more stable than years of me messing around with random errors on Ubuntu 16.04 years ago. There is also FreeBSD which has a saner installation process but it has way worse hardware supports comparing to modern Linux. (Luckily my laptop has just enough supports to be usable)
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wisecar
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Re: I tried to switch to linux (i gave up)

Post by wisecar »

MattKC wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:30 pm If you were able to get through the Hackintosh process, I'd honestly recommend trying Arch (preferably with KDE instead of GNOME). I wouldn't necessarily recommend Arch to everyone, largely because of it's manual CLI-heavy installation process, but if you were able to get through a Hackintosh setup, it should be a piece of cake (the Arch wiki has a very straightforward guide). Not to beat a dead horse, but in my experience, Arch has been far smoother than any Ubuntu install I've ever had.
I suspect I now know what I'll be doing this weekend. I've been running Windows for a while after previously running a Hackintosh and whilst Windows has certainly been "okay" I suspect with my mindset I'd probably be a lot happier running Linux, especially as for my day job I'm in one JetBrains IDE or another.
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